Schäferhunden

[Emilie]

Siden jeg er en høflig sjel så svarer jeg hver gang jeg blir henvendt til. Nei det er ikke sundt, ingen har forfektet at det er sundt. Men jeg lurer litt på (fortsatt) hvor alle disse bananhundene som ikke har fungerende haseledd er, siden alle de som har typisk eksteriørhund poengterer at de har eksteriørhund, men som er "rettere i ryggen enn vanlig"..

Vel, da har du i så fall glemt meg (innlegg #132) Men vet ikke om det er verdt å svare på, siden jeg gjerne, ifølge deg, faller inn under kategorien "nyfrelste bruksfolk".

Edit: ikke har jeg poengtert hvor rett og fin min eksteriørhund er i ryggen heller. Hun kan virkelig se rammeskeiv ut hun.

[Guest Gråtass]

Vel, da har du i så fall glemt meg (innlegg #132) Men vet ikke om det er verdt å svare på, siden jeg gjerne, ifølge deg, faller inn under kategorien "nyfrelste bruksfolk".

Edit: ikke har jeg poengtert hvor rett og fin min eksteriørhund er i ryggen heller. Hun kan virkelig se rammeskeiv ut hun.

Jeg har ikke glemt deg, jeg hadde bare ikke oppfattet at det var ett spørsmål stilet til meg der. Så da har jeg qoutet det under her og skal svare på det. Men jeg syns ikke du skal tillegge meg meninger jeg ikke har uttalt, det er dårlig diskusjons etikk. Så vidt meg bekjent så har ikke jeg kallt deg noe som helst, men om du føler deg truffet av karakterestikken så er jo det synd. Du har så vidt meg bekjent ikke hund etter brukslinjer eller bedriver oppdrett, så jeg vet ikke helt hvordan du klarte å trekke den parallellen der.

Det hender jo noen ganger at man diskuterer dette temaet litt utenfor sonen også, det hender man diskuterer det med andre schäfereiere eller i hundeklubber eller bare tilfeldige mennesker som driver med hund, da kommer stadig det utsagnet frem om rette rygger, men jeg skulle sikkert poengtert det litt bedre at det ikke nødvendigvis måtte gjelde kun de implisitte parter i denne diskusjonen her og nå..

Er det ikke urovekkende i det hele tatt at de som ikke har rasen selv, at til og med ikke-hundeinteresserte ser at noe ikke er helt bra her?

Jo det er urovekkende, det er urovekkende at folk som skal forvalte en rase ikke kan forvalte den til rasens beste og det bekymrer meg at det finnes masse syke hunder ute i dette landet, enten det er mentalt eller fysisk. Men det er også bekymringsfullt at det ikke kan dokumenteres fra sikre kilder hverken om denne oppfattelsen stemmer eller om det finnes andre underliggende agendaer i raseklubben.

[Guest Kåre Lise]

Her er en tysk dokumentar. Kan ikke ett ord tysk jeg men skjønner at det ikke er positivt det de snakker om.

Fint om noen vil oppsummere litt.

http://www.swr.de/betrifft/schaeferhund-zu...4cx5/index.html

[PsychoLynx]

oooh, jeg vil forstå det der! Jeg kan ikke en dritt tysk, og jeg tviler på at min bror gidder å sitte i 45 min for å oversette et BIKKJEprogram til meg

[Guest Kåre Lise]

Fikk da hvertfall sett tyske stadioner fulle av schäfere som er alt anna enn rette i ryggen uten å være oppstilt. Kan ikke skjønne at det der skal være noe å diskutere. Tragisk hele greia og det der skal liksom være avlsmaterialet i følge SV?

[Kristiin]

Jeg likte spesielt 2 hunder i denne filmen:

Og det var Volker Zollgrenzshutz Haus,og klodo von boxberg.Selv om sistnevnte kanskje er mer mallepreget.

Nå er ikke jeg noe Schæferfrik sånn at jeg ser på standarden og kan så mye om den,men rasen ligger hjertet nært og det er ihvertfall min smak sånn rent utseendemessig da...Volker er vel den jeg ærligst kan si minner om Schæfer,men noe ved den andre var bare pent,og er hvertfall bedre enn dagens!

Oj, her kan man virkelig se utviklingen ja! Synes også de første minnet litt mer om en malle, men de var virkelig fine i starten.

meget vakkert!

Dette er virkelig sunne individer tenker jeg! (ser ut som det er fra usa, men uansett det er schæferens utvikling)

Det var to triste videoer

Den første kan du jo virkelig se hvordan de løper...

Synes de dro bakfoten utrolig langt bak p åden andre videoen..

Bare for å sette det litt i perspektiv: Er DENNE hunden noe særlig bedre enn alle disse bananryggschäfere med froskelår og uhensiktsmessig eksteriør ?

Ja

..Har lest i gjennom hele tråden nå og kan se det fra begges sider. Håper sch. har en bedre framtid i møte.

Kan også legge til bilde av en sch jeg synes er fin! Dette er sønnen til Nessie (Brukeren Nessie på forumet)

[Guest Kåre Lise]

Har dere sett dette? Husker ikke om det er med i denne tråden men hører jo absolutt hjemme her. Ting må skje. Spm. er vel bare når?

Where are we right now and where should we go?

The above title is used by the SV Federal Breed Warden Reinhardt Meyer who has started a lecture (one of a series in all regions in Germany if I understand it correctly). I will give a quick overview translation because this lecture is causing some heated discussion in Germany. A lot of showline people were shocked and some workingline enthusiasts positively surprised.

On March 13, 2009, he lectured at Region 6! The following is not a reflection of my opinion but a summary of what was said by Mr. Meyer, written by the secretary of Region 6, available as a PDF-file! For the people fluent in German, here is a link to the German original:

<http://www.sv-lg-westfalen.de/images/stories/pdf/r__meyer_in_oer-erkenschwick1-2.pdf>

The three central aspects of this lecture are the promotion of the working characteristics, the size of our German Shepherd Dogs and the development of pronounced rear angulation which in turns causes loose hocks.

The Federal Breed Warden reminds all listeners to remember Rittmeister Max von Stephanitz' legacy:

1) To steer, oversee and promote the breeding and the training of the German Shepherd Dog to be a working dog

2) The breeding of a utility dog with a utility anatomy

3) The breeding of a dog who is capable of demanding work

Mr. Meyer emphasized that the SV is on its way to lose control of these goals, because on the show side, there are more and more oversized dogs and dogs with overangulated rears and as a result, loose hocks. In the working aspect, there are problems with lacking ability to withstand pressure and high aggression potential. Some dogs with high aggression can meanwhile not be handled and trained by the normal SV member anymore.

The topic "size factor" was presented with different slides and the audience was quite surprised. 18 high placing males were compared. Only last year's Sieger VA-1 Vegas du Haut Mansard had a progeny group without any complaint in size. All 17 (!!) other males had problems in their progeny's size, up

to 70% in some cases!

As a counter measure, it was announced that all ignorant breeding needs to cease and that breeders need to be aware of this problem.

In 2007, it was decided (by the Breed Committee) that all dogs will be measured in the show ring and that all results will be reported to the Federal Breed Warden. Dogs who are on the top size limit will be placed further back in the classes. Most members have understood this concept and the majority of judges have accepted this ruling. Our Federal Breed Warden was aided in this direction by two well known genetists, Dr. Eichelberg and Professor Distl who attested him that "your direction is the only way to stop this development".

Meyer criticized animal medical research who feel the need to pump everything into an individual as long as it moves. There is so much dishonesty, self promotion and personal gain in our society in general. These are not nice but human characteristics. Subjectivity will always look for personal gain.

In regards to pronounced rear angulation and loose hocks, Mr. Meyer explained that it is a proven fact that these problems will not be eliminated with training. German Shepherd Dogs with these problems will be placed at the end of their respective classes, along with oversized dogs, starting this show season of 2009.

Mr. Meyer tried to confront his listeners with the subject of "Breeding of the GSDs is the breeding of working dogs and if it is not the breeding of working dogs then it is also not the breeding of German Shepherd Dogs". The SV has goals to increase the ability to withstand pressure and to make our

dogs more trainable again.

Mr. Meyer mentioned that the breeders of German Shepherd Dogs do not select their breeding stock in the appropriate way anymore. Only dogs should be used who are suitable due to their mental capabilities to promote and preserve these characteristics.

The Federal Breed Warden found problems in regard to selective breed measurements in trials. The public character is not always emphasized which opens the way for manipulations. He criticized that some working judges officiate at manipulated trials which ruin the reputation of our breed. Due to stereotypical and routine training sessions at home fields with the same equipment and helpers, there is no objective judgment regarding the trial results. There is no qualified evaluation of a dog's character, except the amount of points. The existing temperament characteristics of the German Shepherd Dogs can be decisively influenced or hidden with positive and also negative training. As a result, it is noted that a comprehensive, deep and proper evaluation of the overall complex temperament of the individual dog is only possible on a limited basis under the current regulations of trials and breed surveys within the SV. Therefore, it is only marginally possible to make special selections among the breeding dogs in regards to their working ability and their physical structure which would be deemed suitable to improve and preserve our breed.

To further emphasize on that statement, Mr. Meyer mentioned the small sections in the Breed Survey Books, Breed Survey Reports and also the pedigrees (pink papers) which are meant to describe the mental capabilities of our dogs. A lot more room is given for statements about the anatomy of the individual dog.

Also the problem regarding the statement "TSB pronounced, does release" was discussed. A video clip was shown of two different dogs at the Sieger Show who both received the same end result, but performed completely different. The TSB test/screening is not verified enough, according to Mr. Meyer's

opinion.

As a result, the SV formed a work group under the chairmanship of the Federal Breed Warden. The screening elements of basic temperament, social behavior, drives/instincts, ability to withstand pressure, selfsureness and working willingness will be in the foremost view. It will be discussed if a (kind of) ZTP (Zuchttauglichkeitsprüfung = Breed Suitability Test) will be used with the goal to properly evaluate and document the genetic qualities (predisposition) of the individual dog without the outside influence of technical qualities of training and/or the representation (according to trial regulations).

This suitability evaluation should be done by a panel of a trained judging team of three people. How this is going to be held and conducted is not clear as of yet. But it will be an evaluation of relevant working abilities. This work group is also currently busy to reach out and check the acceptance of the general membership when and if such a "ZTP" will be put in place. The willingness of all officials and members is necessary to implement such an element and to be successful. It would be built into the regulations and

by-laws which are already in place without stressing the members any further.

A vote among the attending listeners resulted in an agreement to expand our existing breed surveys with further elements of a ZTP. This result is identical to a poll in 5 more regions in which Mr. Meyer already lectured.

The Federal Breed Warden also stated that he is even willing to continue this quest against all possible resistance but he is hoping for wide acceptance among the general membership. At the end of the lecture, there was a lively discussion regarding this described subject with all attending members.

The LG Westfalen (region 6) thanks the Federal Breed Warden for his appearance and his interesting lecture.

signed M.S. (Region 6 - Secretary)